Brute Force Challenge Planning

Managing the admin for our Brute Force Competition has become a tedious and time-sucking task. To @Solitude’s credit, he has stuck with it through all of the BFCs since the first one here back in 2018. And, if memory serves, he managed a similar challenge before then when the old guard were posting on MyGaming. As we ran through the competition last year it became apparent that the admin side of things was becoming increasingly hard for Soli to find the time to dedicate to. Totally understandably so, in my opinion. <insert “ain’t no one got time for dat” meme here>

With that in mind, I started to think of ways to streamline the competition’s administration for future iterations. Subsequently, with Soli indicating that he’d be unable to manage the BFC this year, I am here to pitch my proposed changes to the competition and to call for other suggestions and ideas from the collective.

First off, I want to start calling it the Brute Force Challenge rather than competition. It’s a me thing.

Obviously, we don’t want to stray too far from the original reasons that the Brute Force Challenge was started in the first place: to create a continual stream of new content for the Most Epic Win site and forum. Even now, five plus years later, new content being added to MEW is still important. I have other ideas about increasing MEWs profile using social media and content platforms like Twitch and YouTube. They’re all secondary to having content to promote and share online in the first place. We want eyeballs, we need stuff for those eyeballs to look at first.

With that in mind, I feel that we need to continue to keep the Challenge’s focus on building the site’s content through the posting of new articles to the site, and through the creation of new topics on the forum. With just three fundamental changes, I think we can still keep to that ideal and to the spirit of the original competition.

First big change: we switch from a Weekly to a Monthly system. This one change will immediately, and significantly, reduce the number of occasions the Challenge Administrator would need to find dedicated time to calculate, count, check, update, and tabulate the scores. If we run the Challenge from February to November, there’ll only be 10 times that points need to be calculated, as opposed to the over 40 we have on a weekly basis.

Second big change: we focus attention on the creation of new content and reward it. At the moment, creating a post, creating a new topic, and posting a relatively small number of comments, are all of equal value. I propose that we make the creation of new articles significantly more beneficial, add more value to the creation of new topics, and make the number of replies a shared value thing.

Third big change: no “must do x amount” weekly requirements for the participants. If you can’t think of something to post this week because it’s a quiet week nerd stuff wise, or you’re just too busy with the real-life stuff, you don’t have to force out a random topic late on Sunday evening just to feel that you’ve met your obligation. You can go for weeks without making any new posts or articles, and then create two new articles and three new topics all on the same day.

So, some suggested revised BFC rules to start the conversation:

  1. The Challenge runs over ten calendar months, from 1 February to 30 November. Points are tallied on the 1st of each new month for the previous month. Points will be tabulated on a publicly accessible Google Sheet.

  2. In any calendar month, participants can earn points by posting up to 5 new site articles and creating up to 10 new forum topics. Additional monthly bonus points can be earned on a weighted scale, based on the total number of comments made by all Challenge participants in that month. (Of course, participants can create more than 5 articles and 10 topics in any month, if they’d like.)

  3. Challenge Points are calculated at the end of each calendar month by the Challenge Administrator, based on the following:

    1. Each published site article, to a maximum of five articles, earns the Participant 3 points. A maximum of 15 points for articles per month can be earned.
    2. Each new topic created, to a maximum of ten topics, earns the Participant 2 points. A maximum of 20 points for topics per month can be earned.
    3. A monthly pool of 100 points will be shared amongst all Challenge Participants for topic comments and replies made through the month. The share of these 100 points earned will be weighted based on the proportion of comments made by the Participant in relation to the total number of comments made by all the Participants in that month. (See example below.)
  4. The system generated value of each Participant’s “Posts Created” will be used for the calculation of each Participants monthly topic comments and replies, and subsequently, the combined number of comments and replies made by all Participants in that month. (See example below.)

  5. Prize money pledged is divided amongst the three participants with the highest scores at the end of the Challenge period with a 55:30:15 split. Should any of the top three point scores finish the Challenge on equal points their prize amounts will be combined and shared equally.

  6. The Challenge is open to any MEW member, with a user account in good standing (no Admin flags) older than 3 months on 1 February, who wants to participate. Participants should ideally declare their intention to participate by 31 January in order to maximise their point scoring. However, members can join the Challenge as Participants at any point before 31 May, but points will not be retroactively awarded for contributions made in months prior to joining the Challenge. Participants must formally declare their participation in the main BFC topic.

  7. Prize money sponsors must indicate their prize pledge amounts by the end of September at the latest. Sponsorship pledges should be made in the main BFC topic. Should a prize sponsor wish to remain anonymous, they will still need to declare their pledge to either the Challenge Administrator in private, or to @SigStart The Grand Poobah, either of whom will act as facilitator.

Monthly topic replies/comments example:

Participant Number Comments % of Total = Points
Alpha 45 28,5
Bravo 12 7,6
Charlie 38 24,0
Delta 63 39,9
Total 158 100

Participant’s number of comments will be based on the “posts created” value found in their MEW Profile Summary:

Screenshot 2023-01-04 170022

There’s a couple of other thoughts I have that can come later. In the meantime, thoughts, ideas, and opinions from others please.

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I will forever read these topics as BroForce the game…

I dont participate in the BFC :wink: But from what I have read in some of the comments, all the new ideas seem pretty solid!

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As usual you can count me in, I might not be able to post as much with the new job but I will participate and take last place with a smile :smiley:

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This is great, thanks @GregRedd. You (and @Solitude) can count me in for at least sponsoring, as always.

As an additional thing you can do to minimise the admin burden on the Brute Force Challenge™ Convenor® is ask people to update their own counts and then just check it and run the calculations.

Discourse has a wiki-post feature that would let people edit/update their tallies.

For safety’s sake you could make messing with someone else’s score an offence that gets you a -100 penalty :grin: :smiling_imp:

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You shall have to teach me Grand Poohbah! I am also available for editing as usual and anything else you guys need help with. ( I struggle with editing wiki posts aka have no fecking clue)

I can pledge R300 this year (might up it depending on how my year goes)

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Nicely done @GregRedd ! Thanks for all of this.

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Looks like you’ve given this some serious thought, I like the changes and how it makes it easier on the administration. I’m always keen to participate!

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I was thinking of a google sheet that people post their stuff to, to reduce the load, also.

I’m in as usual.

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I like the changes suggested, but i have some thoughts after giving it a bit of time to mellow in my brain:

  1. The current points scoring options are great, but still puts too much emphasis on monthly posts rather than articles or threads. As seen last year, i would guess about 5 or 6 people will be active for the competition, which may cause the point split to be more for those that have a high post count percenrage. So you could ignore writing articles or threads, content that gets the whole community engagued, and spam out a bunch of posts. If you get to the 50% mark, you score more points than even the best writers and thread posters. I wonder if that does not defeat the purpose a bit. My guess is that this will not really be something we need to really worry about, but it is a part of the scoring system that can be gamed for huge points. Perhaps thay is the intended outcome, which means my point is moot.

  2. Further from my first point, i think articles should be given a higher score for each article, or a higher overall possible monthly score. In that way the incentice is greater in writing these pieces than teying to spam out low-effort threads or posts in an attempt to get more points. With a higher scoring rate for articles, it means the best and fastest way to win the prize is to write articles that actively help the site kn general.

  3. Post counting is still going to be a pain, and will rely on the honesty of each participant. I didnt see an easy way to quickly get your monthly post count, and it could be a whole lot of work for either a single mediator or each individual entrant. Perhaps it should be debated whether or not post stats should feature at all or not and rather focus on creating threads and articles. Or perhaps a different posting stat where you get full 10 points when you reach a number of posts for the month, say 100, and 1 less for each 10 less posts you made. That way you also much more put scoring emphasis on the first two methods, and put the onus on the poster to just be active as normal.

  4. Perhaps now is a time to relook at introducing scoring for posts to Discord as well. Like my comments from last years suggestion thread, there are many active users on our Discord that never seems to post here. In stead of forcing them to engage here,why not get more active on there. Im not sure how that scoring will work, but perhaps a suggestion.

Those are some of my thoughts.

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Solid thoughts Hammer, thank you. Will rethink and respond properly a little later. Off the bat though, agree with making articles more valuable and reworking the points for comments. Need to think on it a little more, especially how we could possibly add Discord into the mix.

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Loving the game-theoretical approach :smiley: .

“MEW Brute Force Challenge is perfectly balanced with no exploits” :rofl: :rofl:

Just wanted to weigh in on this one — the one way I thought this could work is to work from the totals, like @GregRedd’s proposal suggests.

Everyone’s opening post tally is noted, and then the monthly post count is calculated by subtraction. Like a water meter reading.

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Two weeks later and a week or so to go, so it’s time to finalise the plan for this years’ BFC.

Taking @DieGrootHammer’s last post as the starting point:

  1. By “monthly posts” I guess you’re referring to the replies/comments and my initial suggestion of splitting 100 points between all the comments made in the month. I agree that it could land up getting heavily skewed and could result in someone scoring huge numbers. I suggest reducing the total points available for comments to 25 per month. These still to be split on a weighted basis We can reduce this even further if need be.

  2. Agree that posting main site articles should be the highest scoring activity. I suggest putting the points per article up to 5 points for each published article. Therefore, you could score up to 25 points per month, just from posting 5 articles. New forum Topics to score 1 point each, to a maximum of 10.

  3. Using a Google sheet (check the testing sheet link below) we’ll be able to heavily reduce the tracking admin by making it a requirement for challengers to self-report each time they publish an article or create a new Topic thread. All participants will have the same access and edit abilities on the sheet, and the sheet itself will always be publicly available. The pain of counting posts monthly does remain the one scoring element that we’ll still have to manage manually. But, I am comfortable with the idea that we take the number from each participant’s Profile Summary at a defined point each new month, and then use those figures to calculate each persons comments and replies for that month.

  1. I don’t think any of the participants would be silly enough to try to game the system by making a flood of low effort comments. With the reduced points available for comment replies, their time would be better spent writing a decent article. And besides, it would be hugely obvious to everyone what they’re doing. And, as before, the Challenge Commissioner should keep the right to make adjustments and issue possible penalties if need be. I’m not saying that the odd single emoji or one-word posts won’t happen. But if they’re happening too frequently from one person, it could be addressed.

  2. Still cannot think of any way to incorporate Discord and Discord posting into the BFC mix. Unless anyone else can come up with a workable idea in the next week?
    That said, based on something Hammer did say in his comments (“there are many active users on our Discord that never seems to post here”) there is one thing I thought of that we could perhaps do: bonus points for getting new people (from the Discord server or anywhere else) to actually join us here, and take part in the conversations happening here. Call it a New Mewb Referral Bonus. They must introduce themselves in the Welcome Wagon topic and mention that you referred them here. Then, after they’ve made at least < insert appropriate minimum number. 25?> comments on the forum, you can claim X bonus points. Again, we make it self-monitoring, and set a maximum number of new users that you can get points for. Let’s maybe stick to the 5’s - 5 points per referee with a maximum of 5 new people = a maximum of 25 bonus points claimable over the ten-month period?

Finally, I’ve eventually set up a Google Sheet (via Excel) to test the self-reporting and scoring system. Just set up two months in the interim to use for testing. Have filled February with some dummy info, and left March blank for you all to play with. You will need a Google account on order to make edits to the Sheet. The link has been set to View Only so that anyone not in the Challenge can’t inadvertently make changes to the data. :smiley:

Once you’ve opened the link with your Google Account signed in, select the “View only” button and then send me an Edit Access request. This way we know only BFC participants and one or two other administrators can access and edit the sheet. Please rename one of the placeholder names in the “Current Points & Rank” block on the main sheet and then use that one for your testing.

Any other thoughts, suggestions, changes you want - please share them here (or on the Google Sheet) as soon as so that we can get things finalised, set up, and ready in time to start next week.

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Those sound like good adjustments. The referral system is a good suggestion and I think having it capped at 5 is wise. I don’t think anyone will try game the system but it’s prudent to put in some safeguards.

The Discord thing is tricky since the bulk of conversion happens here in the forum.

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Thank you. And thanks for testing the sheet. Except… you missed the whole point of it :laughing: You manually entered your post and article count on the main sheet, instead of listing your articles and topics on the sheet for March. Check the tabs at the bottom of the screen.

Make all your entries on the specific month sheet only - March for testing. Enter a title for an article, and a few topics under your name, make up an end-of-month comment figure and fill that in down the bottom. The sheet will automatically count your titles, calculate your comment count, and then enter the figures on the main sheet.

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Ooh, I didn’t even look to see the different sheets! Ok will do it properly this time

Edit: That’s pretty neat! I think this will work really well

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C&P test…

Current Points & Rank 23 Jan @ 18:19
Points Rank
Greg 43.4 3
DarthMol 71.0 1
czc 44.4 2
Delta 36.0 4
Echo 18.3 7
Foxtrot 20.0 6
Gamma 35.3 5
Hotel 11.6 8
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You will find that Hotel has changed their name and added some articles…

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I do not believe that Gamma is the correct word as part of the phonetic alphabet, you should instead have Golf to represent the respective letter.

Disclaimer: I could also be missing the point.

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You’re right, should have been golf. Was flip-flopping between phonetic and Greek, but purely for quick filler text with zero significance. :grinning:

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Good stuff there @GregRedd

The discord is a difficult one. Maybe we could add points for participating in Multiplayer events? Like you guys had for Racing, that could get people active on discord. It would just be difficult to get everyone one on fairly due to the loadshedding.

Maybe this table could be on its own tab? Then you could sort it in order of rank.

Current Points & Rank 24 Jan @ 09:09
Points Rank
Greg 41.1 4
DarthMol 52.6 2
czc 50.7 3
Delta 34.8 5
Echo 18.9 8
Foxtrot 19.5 7
Gamma 34.3 6
Hammer 53.1 1
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